A surprising number of audiophiles don't even know what is the difference between mixing and mastering, let alone how a well-recorded album differs from a well-mastered one. I was thinking about the 2x180g version by classic records, can anyone comment about the sound and QC on that one ? Is that it? Over the years, further cuttings from the original mastering were brought into service. OP, I can try to explain it but it's only after people listen to it that they get it. Who knows? DE 49th;ad infinitum. Could someone explain to me the attraction of a reissue of Kind Of Blue in mono that is a modern day fold-down from the 3 track master tape? When KOB was originally recorded, Columbia ran simultaneous mono and three-track stereo tape recorderstwo each, one of each being for safety back-up. No lacquer is a second or third generation copy, or a copy of a copy, or of later manufacture. It looks like all of these were mixed at 24/192k (not in the analog domain). The stereo presentation revealed more air, more detail and more sheer life than the mono. I believe that would be earlier. Each lacquer is merely one cutting from the first master tape mix, all manufactured at the same time. The Sonys don't sound bad by any stretch, I just prefer the MoFi's more relaxed sound. Its a double album, with the first LP offering the record in its original stereo form (speed corrected, of course) and a second disc featuring the first take of Flamenco Sketches on one side and a version of Green Dolphin Street on the other. #1. The new 24/192k mix is very good !! Hoffman: Or "Your Mother Should Know." However, on Beatles For Sale, the mono version really bites because they worked so hard on it; it's so compressed and harsh sounding. There is no matrix-based code reason to believe a pressing off a 1BJ stamper will sound any different or better than one off an 1A stamper. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Miles Davis Kind of Blue (CD) Mono & Stereo Collector's Album (US IMPORT) at the best online prices at eBay! When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, This was released as a single recordafter the blue vinyl(different masteringfrom Kevin gray). Even if I don't agree with an opinion, if I know the criteria for judging, I can learn from it. After hearing a lot of different versions of KOB I believe it's just the sound of the mute which is raw and gritty. CL 1355; Vinyl LP). Free shipping for many products! There is no real distortion on any version of KOB that I own but there certainly IS the sound of reeds vibrating. In afurther variation the word UNBREAKABLE under the catalogue number disappears. Press operators at this time have stressed that their two priorities were to ensure Side 1 and 2 were correctly matched, and that the labels were completely dry. Milestone and Round About Midnight were mono-only titles. No, by the time I got interested in old mono pressings, the price on Piper had gotten too high. Or so Conventional Wisdom suggests. It amazes me that so few hear or recognize the distortion present throughout, especially on So What. I love the latest MFSL 2LP 45rpm, rapidly became my go to copy. Nor are they sold at gunpoint. Released 17 August 1959 on Columbia (catalog no. Perhaps that is one reason why so many were cut: quality control in distributed pressing through inexpensive redundancy. At their web site? The two stereo tapes were stored safely in a vault for over three decades before anyone thought of taking them out for remastering. A further four lacquers BB, BG, AL and BH, take us up to the three-quarter mark of all stereo copies manufactured. Do you know if the original issue was cut using the Columbia EQ curve? It is art after alland there is really only one master, and only one first pressing which Miles and Teo agreed on as being "finished". John Marks' account of hearing the three-track master tape at Sony Studios, I don't know a lot about record store day. They occur in similar offset mirrored pairs: E/K, K/E, AC/AE, AE/AC. Affiliate programs and 1A/1AE)with the Side 2 track-list error corrected, so stereo lacquer 1A was used only in later pressings, not in any early stereo pressing run. Even *if* Macero had been involved, any changes he would have made would have been at the mix stage, not the recording stage. He claimed back then that sometimes they would vari-speed tracks slightly to change the tempo. If people didn't buy their products, then they wouldn't make them. Photos not available for this variation. It is a sort of rattling sound. Regarding vinyl it is felt that the 2014 mono vinyl release is the sane way to go if you want the best sound up til the White album. The difference between mono and stereo is the number of channels that they send to the speakers. Is it the same as Columbia/Sony? The Holy Grail, Kind of Blue, six eye stereo KoB 3. Would you know which pressing that would be? Even more amazing that no one has taken on a project to "clean it up", or to maybe offer a cleaned and an uncleaned version side by side, so as to appease the purists. The 50th Anniversary issue is a pretty blue color! I asked him about all the fuss surrounding the speed correction of the Sony releases. A lacquer pair includes Side 1 and Side 2 of the record. Barcode and Other Identifiers Barcode: 4 547366 450958 Other Versions (5 of 502) View All Recommendations Kind Of Blue Miles Davis No soul at all. I could go on about the sound but I think the real point is that given todays best 24/192 PCM processing/mixing and using original vinyl as a reference for the new mix, great things can be done. I finally got the MFSL 2x45 after holding out for a later press due to reports of some early ones being off centre. I reckon sales of KoB wasmaybem between 1959 and 1963, pure guesswork. From then until an October 30, 1958 Art Blakey session, Rudy simultaneously ran both mono and stereo session tapes. I didn't realize Music On Vinyl was releasing this same version on RSD as the Columbia pressing. BC 25th; BD 26th; BE 27th; BF 28th; BG 29th; BH 30th; It is a blue coloured record. . The Crossword Solver finds answers to classic crosswords and cryptic crossword puzzles. Since neither mono tape surfaced it must be assumed they were repurposed or stolen. The four variations are offset pairs eg 1D/1H and 1H/1D.With D, G and H, and each letter is found as Side 1 and Side 2. Since the mono tapes apparently no longer exist, recent monophonic reissues (yes, some people do prefer mono) were created by mixing down the three tracks on the backup stereo master to a single track. I don't hear it throughout the record. It has cleverly placed itself between the high-end audiophile labels, whose LPs can be very pricey, and the cheap low-end labels, whose noisy pressings can sound like bacon frying. By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. This is relevant to this thread because I'd like to pick up the Sony release of KOB. For more information, please see our It got me "in the room" or studio, with the guys, where mono just did not, so I find it kind of (sorry) bizarre that, under almost any circumstance, mono would be the preferred medium where stereo is available. Hence the stereo (but not the mono) releases of Kind of Blue and virtually all the releases were stereo had always had those three tracks playing at slightly the wrong pitch. Wildler and Berkowitz recently decided to do another and perhaps final 3-track KOB transfer: to DSD, to 192/24 bit PCM (and probably other resolution digital) and at the same time, a two-channel stereo and a mono mixdown to analog tape. I have an original mono pressing and I was a little unsure if it was a worn record or just the horn. The most frequently found are in, order of magnitude, AJ, AD, BC, AA, AE and AG. 9 Modern Album of Terre Haute, IN when supplying Chicago Jacksonville, IL plant. More drive, more punch. Beatles, Sinatra) that I can compare to modern vinyl or CD releases, but admittedly that doesn't help with Piper since it's a case-by-case thing. Unfortunately, the Kind of Blue mono master tape no longer exists. It's not distortion. Affiliate programs and Three jacket manufacture codes fits with the Columbia distributed manufacture model, and fits with there being three pairs of lacquers in use for the promo one pair to each of Columbias three plants. I'll have to give it a try. The tracklisting sequence error went uncorrected on the jacket for a further three decades, though some sellers confuse the label error and the cover error suggest the error on the cover is somehow proof of original provenance. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. The artist name and album title are set in Erbar Light Condensed font, used by Bridgeport and which went on to be used in label printing for Pitman. There may have been 27 lacquers cut but many letters never appear, and only a limited number of lacquers appear to have been actually used for pressing. 2 sense. Flamenco Sketches is a 6/8 12-measure blues form that produces its mood through only a few modal changes and Miles Davis' free melodic conception. Stereo promos replicate the early track sequence error seen on the mono promolabels i.e. Hence the stereo (but not the mono) releases of Kind of Blue and virtually all the releases were stereo had always had those three tracks playing at slightly the wrong pitch. Again, I'm very happy with my Columbia RSD pressing. There are also six missing lacquers, matrix code letters not found on either side on any stereo six eye: C, D, F, G, K and L. We now know where lacquer B went (or at least mothers derived from it): Canada. I listen to critics and online commenters whose point of view I can understand. It is not staid, especially side 2. The SACD always sounded kind of tubby/boomy but the CD is awful compared to these new files. Why introduce a new lacquer 1AL when 1A is still capable of churning out acceptable quality pressings? The Mono Box from 2009 was not cut from pristine LP masters. The reissue's mix down from three tracks to one has been so skillfully and carefully done, even veteran mono KOB listeners might have difficulty guessing the source were that the only criterion. The Hollywood plant (located at 8723 Alden Drive from 1948) also closed some time in 64 when Santa Maria became fully operational., All lacquers cut are numberedin a standard matrix codeformat,stamped into the vinyl land lacquer between the grooves and label. :-). This is specially true for master tapes that are over 30 years old and are not the holly grail many believe them to be. Mostly these are high values like BC/BGand BH/BJ , close to the CBS overprint and transition to two-eye label (1962/63) where lacquers from the third cohort 1CA to 1CL begin to appear. Pressed in Japan and housed in a tip-on jacket with OBI strip. Symmetrical (1A/1A) and sequential pairs (1A/1B) are actually a quite rare occurrence. cwitt1980 Senior Member Thread Starter. Price: US $9.99. It was a little nondiscript record store on Lincoln Blvd. Ebay auctions of Kind of Blue on six-eye label over last three years where, seller identified matrix on both sides (198 commercial releases, 218 in total including twenty promos). Most but not all lacquers used to press promos (A, G,D and H) went on to be used to press the commercial release. During these sessions both a mono and a three-track stereo master were created, using a total of four tape recorders running in synchronisation one prime recorder and one safety backup each for mono and stereo. It was remixed properly. At other plants, stampers were deliberately chosen from different laquers. I actually worked with Kind of Blue producer Teo Macero back in 2000, shortly before his death. OPENING HOURS MON-THURS: 16-00 FRI-SAT: 16-02 . What is the slight distortion that is present in every copy of KOB I've ever heard? Most modern speakers are are small or narrow. One was selling in the marketplace but asking a question about something for sale is apparently a 'conversation.'. I wonder how a fancy (like Mikey's German unit) or homebrew ultrasonic would do for getting the embedded plastic grunge off? Perfect consistent quality. The prime stereo tape recorder had been running just over one percent slow, so on playback and during the mastering of albums it ran a little fast. The Radio Museum website lists several Hoffman consoles from 1959 which is a plausible year for one of the early stereo "two-box" style consoles. Controversial in some quarters, but I agree. http://www.musiconvinyl.com/catalog/miles-davis/kind-of-blue-mono#more. W.B of New York adds following correction (September 16,2017): To understand how Columbia matrix codes worked in practice, over 1,000 individual Ebay auctions of. I just got the 2LP Classic Records stereo today and have had the blue 50th so I'm anxious to see how this compares. Unfortunately for vinyl fans, there were reportedly widespread problems with the vinyl, thanks to poor, noisy pressings. Columbia/Sony Legacy CL-1355 (88883761031) 180g mono LP, Mixed by: Mark Wilder/Steve Berkowitz (this reissue), Mastered by: Ryan K. Smith at Sterling Sound, Over the past few Record Store Days Sony/Legacy has slowly been rolling out on 180g vinyl much of the Miles Davis catalog, mastered from original analog tapes. they too are pre 11/59. The 81 is the only mono Pepper that impresses me. Privacy Policy. Did Teo ever say why he hated the Sony releases? Stereo promos were produced from four lacquers: E, K, AC and AE. I agree Crosley is the devil. Have you read Fremer's review? FIRST! 5 Modern Album of Terre Haute, IN Also what comes to trusting the recommendations of people on audio forums, I stopped paying any attention to what critics of any kind music, audio, or otherwise have to say years ago, but the people who write their opinions on audio forums I have equally low faith in. I have an original copy of "Round Midnight" that I bought in Santa Monice back in the 70's. Luckily for vinyl fans, the story doesnt end there. The three-track recording produced three distinct channels and nothing you could legitimately call "stereo". I found 20 sufficiently sharp pictures of back covers acompanying promos. A must have! this can result in this site earning a commission. Since I was just listening to this new reissue from Sony on mono, I thought I would revisit Mikey's writing about it. If you are familiar with any DCC audiophile releases, then you already know Steve. Flamenco Sketches was wrongly listed as the first track, and All Blues as the second. Did the 2022 Revolver mono vinyl LP from the box set come in a stereo jacket? Kind of Blue was recorded in both mono and three track stereo at Columbia's 30th St Studios. That is not really being "in the studio with the group". So when I read imbeciles claiming Columbia used it into the 1980s because some records sound "better" with it, I get a bit crazy (er). That said, they are BOTH fantastic. Of all the large number of combinations of lacquer pairs, just two stand out as being symetrical: 1D/1D and 1J/1J. They can't find the tapes. 001527. CBS overprint non-DG illustrated below (1962/3). I've got several of the Wilder/Sony Miles Davis mono RSD 180g remasters and I'mveryimpressed with them. Conventional wisdom is no guide to what actually happens, Postscript Technical Appendix the data. (Model #s B8001, B8005-B8010) Some are listed as 2 chassis units. The 1981 has something that both my 1967 and 2014 lack despite the thin vinyl. I dont know if this was the case during the original release, but seeing that sometimes it was intentionally done to get a different result it brings in to question the validity of the subsequent remasters. How many times have I seen one of the most mediocre albums I've heard in my life be named the album of the year? I own this one along with the 1997 re-issue and a 35DP-62 Japan for US. The two bonus tracks are of particular interest. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, Those lacquers existed, and were put into service from 1963 onwards until the early. The record industry says, conservatively,one master lacquercangenerate at least five mothers of acceptable quality, each mothercan generate atleast five stampers, with each stamper capable of pressing around 4,000 albums. More rock n roll. When KOB was originally recorded, Columbia ran simultaneous mono and three-track stereo tape recorderstwo each, one of each being for safety back-up. Does your copy say "Music on Vinyl"? I have three different versions. I know the company doesn't forcibly place them in anyone's hands. Beyond that, you end up with any six-eyepressed between 1959 and 1963. Have a look. Another fifteen lacquers contribute to the final tally of all those found. The stereo releases from 1959 to 1992 had the songs on side-A slightly sharp in pitch. This was corrected (ie order reversed) on the label of commercial release pressings, at the instruction of Teo Macero, around November 1959. How far is the Kind of Blue manufacturing system representative of that of other Columbia titles? Some of these later re-releases from later generation mothers are better than others.and you may "prefer" the slower speed of the re-mastered "corrected" versions.you may "prefer" the re-mixed (terrible) versions as welljust know that they are not 100% the original intent of the artists involved. What happened? About these vinyl. One of the interesting discoveries made in 1992 when the tapes were first exhumed, was that Side 1 of the stereo issue, consisting of the tracks recorded at the first session, So What, Freddie Freeloader and Blue in Green, had been playing at the wrong speed since 1959. I caughtone seller claiming he had a 1A/1A in the auction headline which later in the description expanded to 1AC/1AE. "Scarborough Fair" sounds better in mono, but the rest of the "PSRT" album is killer in stereo. A known unknown. Two hundred fifty auction copies with good stamper information and photos of both labels were found: 200 mono and 50 stereo, reflecting the slow early uptake of new stereo phonograms in the late 1950s and early 1960s, The reason why Columbia cut so many lacquers used to puzzle me, but I see it now as a very smart system of distribution and quality control, with inexpensive redundancy built in. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. My heart always sinks when I read those words. LP review by Andrew Cartmel). (LJC: so 1G and 1H would be the 2ndcutfrom Santa Maria)That way they could easily keep track of how many replacements were needed for each plant. The four monos I have vary from Poor to VG. You are using an out of date browser. Both the mono and the stereo originals display the same pitch problem, that went un-corrected for decades. In line with Conventional Wisdom, first pressing on mono starts A, B, C, and (some) D, after which it is a veritable free for all, mix and not match. Hope that helps. The lacquer code can in theory be matching both sides (1A/1A), but if two lacquers were supplied to a plant, four Side 1/ Side 2 permutations are possible: 1A/1A, or 1A/1B or 1B/1A or 1B/1B, depending on which lacquers came to hand when being mounted in a press. I had the pure joy of borrowing a long-time friend's 6 Eye mono . If you love this record (and who in the world does not? I even threw in the 90's SBM cd for the hell of it. The LondonJazz News Team / Contact Details, PREVIEW/ INTERVIEW: Ian Bowden, Rye Internatonal Jazz & Blues Festival, (Aug 21-25), REPORT AND PHOTOS: Gareth Williams/ Trish Clowes at the Watermill Dorking. Though not documented as far as I have seen, Terre Haute appears to have used some sort of mother and stamper identifier a T followed by an alpha TA, TB, TC probably mother A, mother B, or mother C, then a simple hand etched line counter for the stamper identifier, shown here below: Having two or more lacquer sources, it is surprising mistakes were not made pressing a record with two Side 1s from side 1 stampers from separate laquers but this never seems to have occurred, so there is probably some other form of process control which we dont know about. The mono tapes have gone missing. ), Forum Policies, Rules, and Terms of Service. :thmbsp: Monaural Cartridge Miyajima: " Spirit MONO high out-put " p.s. My search is over trying to find the perfect pressing, sorry MOFI and Classic records. You can buy this same exact pressing for a very reasonable price just not numbered here: Miles Davis - Kind Of Blue Flippers gonna flip, I get it, but sometimes you can do something about it and maintain the same quality. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. However, stereo tracks send two different channels, one for each speaker. Or the mono tapes went missing. Previously overlooked, there is some evidence that the distribution of promos and possibly manufacture may have been the work of more than one plant, possibly three. See original listing. They all sound good but the SACD is sublime. The price seems a little high to me but I have no idea of the quality or condition of this console. lacquer letter progression rapidly stops being a useful guide to the very earliest pressings. This could be a quite desirable source for early pressings. As mentioned before, I noticed the same "rightness" on RCA's mono vinyl of Belafone at Carnegie Hall. Featuring Evans at his most mellow and cheery, moody bass modulations by Chambers, notable fast-shuffle boogie drums by Cobb, rich slabs of Coltrane sax, and slalom-sliding trumpet by Miles in joyous Surrey With a Fringe on Top style it might come from a different sound world to the lonely, modal Kind of Blue tunes, but Green Dolphin Streetis nevertheless a blue ribbon bonus track.
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